Ollie Taylor: 0:03

If you want to attract the next generation of customers and consumers to keep your business in a profitable, healthy way, you do need to change your product makeup because the next generation of owners who are currently, you know, 20, 30 years old they have very different purchase drivers and decision makers to the current 60 and 70-year-old baby boomer generation who built the industry from the ground up.

Tom Raftery: 0:26

Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in the world. Welcome to episode 88 of the Sustainable Supply Chain Podcast, the only podcast focused exclusively on the intersection of sustainability and supply chain. I'm your host, Tom Raftery, and I'm delighted to have you here today. Before we get started, a quick reminder, you can now support this podcast and unlock the full back catalog by becoming a Sustainable Supply Chain Plus subscriber. For just five euros or dollars a month, less than the price of a fancy coffee, you'll get access to all 80 plus past episodes of this podcast and more than 380 episodes of the Digital Supply Chain Podcast. The most recent four episodes remain free for everyone, but the archive is exclusively for subscribers. Plus members also get a shout out on the show and a direct line to me for suggesting guests topics or even shaping where we take the podcast next. You'll find the link in the show notes or at tinyurl.com/ssc pod. Now onto today's conversation, and it's a fascinating one. We're taking to the water to talk about decarbonising the marine industry, a sector that's often overlooked, but has a huge environmental footprint. My guest is Ollie Taylor, director of Marine Futures, a UK-based company helping boat builders and their suppliers cut emissions and design for sustainability using lifecycle assessment or LCA. Ollie has spent nearly a decade pushing for smarter data-driven decisions in marine manufacturing, helping builders avoid the trap of green designs that turn out to have higher carbon footprints once you look at the full lifecycle. We discuss why data quality is the biggest barrier to progress and how marine Shift 360 is changing that. And what the future of circular design looks like for boats from material sourcing to end of life recovery. If you are interested in how sustainability meets engineering precision and what it takes to make marine decarbonisation real, not just rhetoric, this episode is for you. Ollie, welcome to the podcast. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Ollie Taylor: 2:46

Hi, Tom. Yep. Thank you. So my name's Ollie Taylor. I'm director of a company called Marine Futures Limited based in the UK. And yeah, really excited to dive into today's topic.

Tom Raftery: 2:57

Great. And tell us a little bit about Marine Futures Ollie.

Ollie Taylor: 3:01

So Marine Futures is a business I set up about a year ago now principally to deal with the big problem of decarbonisation in the marine industry. So I have been working in this space for a number of years lifecycle assessment to help boat builders primarily and their supply chain partners decarbonise their products and operations. So yeah, Marine Futures was set up kind of with that central mission, which was to support the industry in decarbonising. And yeah, it's been an interesting journey so far.

Tom Raftery: 3:30

Okay. And why? What made you kind of sit up one day and go, you know, I think I need to set up Marine Futures?

Ollie Taylor: 3:40

Well, the answer to that question probably goes back about nine years at this point. So nine years ago I was working in the marine industry in a role focused primarily around kind of commercial development for the business, but also product development. So working out how do you create products that will thrive in this changing environment, this, this kind of world where people are beginning to wake up to wanting more sustainable products and understanding that the impact of the products they are buying isn't always as positive as one would hope So. When I was at that boat builder, we were looking at electrifying the drive train in the boats we were making. So we were looking at the automotive industry who were kind of leading the way and, and they were obviously moving quite quickly towards hybrid and electric drive train. So we assumed

Tom Raftery: 4:24

that's

Ollie Taylor: 4:24

what we need to do in the boat business. Like that's what we'll achieve kind of zero emission operation. And. That turned into a massively convoluted journey around trying to solve the engineering challenge, which was how do you get batteries for high enough energy density that are packaged in a small enough space to propel these vessels? And on that journey, we came across the automotive industry. It was Volvo cars at the time actually had begun to publish their own lifecycle assessment data to show where the breakeven point was on a road going vehicle. So kind of their petrol or diesel XC 60 I think it was, versus their electric and hybrid one. And what was really interesting from that data when we began reading it was that the breakeven points were quite variable, depending on a number of factors. So how you charge the vehicle, the upstream supply chain for the batteries and the motors, all that sort of stuff. On that example, I think it was around a 60,000 kilometer breakeven point. If you were charging from an EU average grid mix at 60,000 kilometers, the electric vehicle was, was lower impact. And obviously the car has fairly long lifespan, so you, you're net positive, very, very much net positive by the end. And we thought, well that's interesting'cause in the marine market, a lot of these boats actually don't have very high utilisation rates. So how would we go about calculating the breakeven point for our electric boat versus our petrol or diesel boat? That's where we kind of came up against this lack of data availability and, and tools to work it out. And it was through that journey essentially that I came across lifecycle assessment about nine years ago. And we used it at that point to kind of preemptively calculate what is the right solution for these vessels? And we came to realise, electrifying in that particular boat was a more negative outcome than keeping the existing petrol or diesel boat. So that was the, I guess, the light bulb moment for me about nine years ago that then set me off on this path to where I am today trying to help the whole industry use data to make the right decision in the design phase of a product's life. So they are actually creating lower impact products rather than accidentally creating higher impact products by making the wrong choice in the design period,

Tom Raftery: 6:34

So a couple of quick things there. First for anyone who'who's listening who might not be familiar with lifecycle assessment I suspect majority are, but just to be sure, to be sure. Give us a quick 101.

Ollie Taylor: 6:49

Yeah, so 101 on Lifecycle Assessment or LCA is is the acronym that gets frequently used. It is a process by where you can calculate the full lifecycle impact of a product. And that's normally split into a production phase of life, a use phase and an end of life phase. And what you're typically doing is in the production phase, taking the bill of materials, so all of the raw materials that go into a product and, and calculating what the impact of those is. The use phase could be highly variable for any specific product. It's a boat, obviously it's the petrol and diesel and the refit and the maintenance. If it's a car, you know, it's the energy you're putting into to use the car from A to B. And then end of life is, you know, what do you do with all of the materials, all the waste materials we created in the production phase? What do we do with then the actual product at the end of life? Is it recycled? Is it landfilled, incinerated? And you're using software tools primarily. Sometimes it's Excel, sometimes it's more advanced software to calculate all of these impacts along the full lifecycle to then understand what could we do differently if we have options around material sourcing materials in their own right, the way the product's used, what changes could we make within that system to create a lower impact outcome?

Tom Raftery: 8:01

And how live are these LCAs? And what I mean by that is the data changes all the time. I mean, the data around batteries nine years ago has nothing to do with the data around batteries today. And I suspect similar for other parts of drive trains that are going into these, these boats and cars as well. So if you did a lifecycle analysis of something nine years ago or five years ago versus today, you'd get very different outputs. So how do you account for that?

Ollie Taylor: 8:38

Yeah, what, what you've highlighted there is probably one of the biggest challenges in in the world of lifecycle assessment, which is data quality and data availability. The way we set up, so within Marine Futures we run a specific project called Marine Shift 360, which is what we would describe as a streamlined lifecycle assessment software tool, and it's cloud-based, all the rest of it. And it has this database that sits behind it that we are constantly updating with the latest available data. But the challenge is quite rightly, if you're using a database like Eco Invent, for instance, which is kind of one of the gold standard databases available globally. There's a lot of data in there that's very, very old, and when using that old data, it's gonna give you misleading results. So our push is to work collaboratively with as many manufacturers and many material suppliers to get the latest data and inject that into the tool. So then the end users, who are the designers, engineers, naval architects in the marine space, have that live data, if you will, at their fingertips to try and calculate. Because you're right, battery production as an example, you know, the impact of that. As we are reaching greater economies of scale and, and volumes increase it becomes a more efficient process. So the impact of a one kilowatt battery cell today versus 10 years ago is quite different. And that will really change whether you choose to go for an electric drive, train in a boat or not. So yeah, it, it remains a massive challenge, if I'm totally honest to get suppliers to share the data.'cause you also end up in the commercial realm where certain suppliers see it as as advantageous to only share that data with specific people. But not everyone because they think it's a competitive advantage 'cause they've got a lower impact product and they don't wanna put themselves out in the world, to make their competitors, for instance, know what their, CO2 equivalent impact is per kilogram of aluminum produced. What, whatever the, the example is. So yeah, we are still at this, inflection point, I guess, is as an industry and as a discipline where getting people to share data remains one of the biggest challenges.

Tom Raftery: 10:34

And when you look at the marine sector today, what is the biggest sustainability challenge that we're still not addressing properly? Is it that, is it the data or is there something else?

Ollie Taylor: 10:45

I think in the marine industry, you can kind of split it. You've got the maritime sector, which is your commercial shipping and, and, and that end of the spectrum. And then you've got a lot of the work which we end up doing actually is in more of the leisure marine sector and, and vessels below 40 meters in waterline length. And they actually have very different challenges that they're facing. In the leisure sector, the biggest challenge is the misconception that the use phase of a product's life was often the biggest contributor as a total lifecycle impact. But as I mentioned earlier, often these boats spend 90% of their life in a marina not actually doing anything. So if you go and put an alternative propulsion system, even if it's like hydrogen for instance, or ethanol, or methanol, you're not necessarily gonna reduce the total impact. So, the biggest challenge really is the lack of education on where impact occurs in the value chain, because once you understand where it occurs, you can actually focus on those hotspot areas and kind of get the biggest bang, bang for your buck in terms of investment return with making a change to materials, production processes, energy usage. But often people don't know where the impact occurs in their products because they haven't done the LCA. So our, our mission is to make those tools available universally to everyone. So in that design process, you can calculate just like you would use CFD or FEA or 3D cad, you know, these are universal tools that are used in the industry. We want to see LCA as one of those universal decision support tools to make sure you're making the right choice.

Tom Raftery: 12:15

Okay. And how has Marine Shift 360 changed your view of what really matters in marine product design?

Ollie Taylor: 12:24

Good question. I think fundamentally, every product is unique, so you do need to run the model to work out where the greatest contributor of impact occurs. What we've seen a lot in the last five to six years is, builders focussing on the wrong areas, coming out with a product that they believe to be truly green and it's gonna save the planet. But we know having done the data, it isn't necessarily what it, what they're claiming. So we've had a big issue with kind of green claims that are not necessarily entirely true in this industry. It's not always malicious, it's just a lack of education and knowledge. Like LCA isn't this universally applied tool at the minute, so people just don't know that they're making a mistake in, in that point. Yeah, that's what we are trying to do is a big focus on education now. So really upskilling the industry and everyone who operates within it. So they have this carbon literacy, so when they're making design choices or, or operational choices, they know the, the kind of impact cost as well as the financial cost of making that choice.

Tom Raftery: 13:27

And why isn't LCA standard practice across the industry yet? You know what's holding people back?

Ollie Taylor: 13:35

Oh, good question. I think historically, if you look at LCA as a discipline, it, it's sat in academia. So it's been used in that space or it's been expensive consultants who would come in and do the work for you. A large part of what we're also doing under the project now is working with academic institutes. So all of the, the global universities who have a specialist focus in the marine environment. And what we found is it's not taught particularly there, there'll be a module or a couple of modules on sustainable design principles or circularity concepts. But the actual tools for measuring and understanding impact are not universally taught. So you've got this generation even now coming out who, who don't necessarily have the skills. And it's, I guess 10 years ago it wasn't commonplace to discuss the impact or, or customers weren't ever asking like, what is the impact of the product I'm buying? Particularly in the leisure marine space where, you know, this is people's hobby. It's where they go to retreat from work and, and relax and have a bit of fun. Like they potentially are not worried about the environmental impact of their actions. But I think as we see climate change accelerating exponentially, you can't hide from it. Like, it, it, it happens everywhere. And you've seen it this year in the Mediterranean with sea temperature rises that are completely unprecedented. And that's the very environment where you go to retreat from, the scary real world to enjoy time on your boat. But that now is being threatened as well. So, that's where we're trying to tie the climate message with the commercial opportunity message that all of us have to change our behavior and actions collectively, if we have any chance of, reversing the negative implications of climate change.

Tom Raftery: 15:15

Okay, and if you're advising a marine brand starting from scratch, what's one sustainability lever you'd tell them not to ignore?

Ollie Taylor: 15:24

Again, I, I probably am banging on. It's, it's all about data and ultimately it's understanding across your whole organisation. Where does impact occur? Working out the biggest contributors first, and we say, you know, it's focusing on the low hanging fruit, it's the levers that you can pull. The, the least financial cost could also have the biggest financial benefits. Take waste, as an example the marine industry is pretty wasteful in its use of materials.'cause materials historically have been very, very low price. You know, glass fiber resins, the alloy inputs, you know, not particularly expensive inputs. And then what we saw post COVID is this massive increase in, in your input cost as a manufacturer. So where you've got a wasteful operational process, that waste, not only does it have an environmental impact, but it also has a financial implication to your business. So understanding that, for instance, it's, it's a win-win in both the environment and finance, tick boxes, if you will. But yeah, it, it all starts with understanding where impact occurs in your value chain, and then focusing on the easy wins. Go after those first and then, it does get progressively harder, but a large proportion of your impact can be reduced with a few specific actions.

Tom Raftery: 16:38

Such as.

Ollie Taylor: 16:40

If we're talking about, boat production, its energy inputs into factory environments. Lots of people are not on renewable tariffs, let alone being on renewable tariffs, then looking at onsite generations. So with a couple of clients, we've worked on big projects for solar and wind installs, which have massively slashed their emissions, but also their energy costs. The other ones is manufacturing efficiency. So if you're talking about composite manufacturing, which makes up a large proportion of boats below 40 meters, they're built with glass fiber or carbon fiber, for instance. Lots of very inefficient processes be it from a hand lamination composite technology, you could look to move towards a resin infusion, and then from resin infusion onto a silicon bag, resin infusion to reduce your concealable usage. And by making those process changes, you are reducing your wastage. So saving money, but you are also creating lighter weight, more consolidated structurally stiff laminate structures, which then because they're lighter, you require less energy to power them through the water. So you, again, you've got your operational costs because you are using less, less fuel as the customer on the boat. But you've also used less material. So you've got an environmental win. It is specific to the type of boats you're building, whether you're building sailboats or power boats. Electric powertrains, diesel powertrains. But we've got a bit of a playbook that we've developed now through the few years that we've been consulting in this space. It's not as complicated as people believe it to be. You just have to understand the data and then use the data to make the right decision.

Tom Raftery: 18:06

I'm hearing a data theme coming through here somehow.

Ollie Taylor: 18:12

Yeah, definitely. Which, which, you know, I think a lot of sustainability professionals talk about data and the lack of quality data which is true. I used to do a lot with greenhouse gas inventories, for instance, and, and the difference between spend based emissions calculations versus activity based. And the truth is the data will often sit within the ERP systems of these manufacturers. It's just packaging it up in the right format and injecting it into the LCA tool and it will give you the information. So, you know, we work with organisations to automate that process to some degree and make it simple. But most manufacturers have the data. They just need to tidy it up and use it to inform decisions.

Tom Raftery: 18:52

What about the tension then between regulation and design when it comes to driving sustainability? Which do you think, I mean, you're talking about design a lot, but do you think regulation is important as well? There's a kind of a, a tension there between the two.

Ollie Taylor: 19:09

Regulation long-term will be probably the most pivotal driver of change across all industries. But it's a double-edged sword because regulation is incredibly slow to move and be implemented. And we've seen, you know, in the European Union a massive rollback very, very recently on things like the EU Green Claims Directive. You've seen it kind of in the political headwinds against sustainability are quite strong right now. So we talk a lot more about the commercial advantage of adapting, these sorts of technologies and building low impact products, mainly from a customer angle as much as anything. You know, you look at the age demographics of boat owners in the European space, and particularly in North America as well, and it's an older generation. So if you want to attract the next generation of customers and consumers to keep your business in a profitable, healthy way, you do need to change your product makeup because the next generation of owners who are currently, you know, 20, 30 years old they have very different purchase kind of drivers and decision makers to the current 60 and 70-year-old baby boomer generation who built the industry from the ground up. So I personally believe we're gonna see a bigger drive from that side rather than regulation. We are working, in that space as well and we hope for legislation, but I think we've seen a lot of false starts recently. Again corporate sustainability reporting directive in the European space. That was the big hope. As a legislative tool that was gonna increase transparency and reporting and drive change and all the rest of it. And then what ended up happening is, all of the companies who, who were forced to comply with CSRD, they then diverted the budgets that they'd set aside for sustainability purely towards compliance with CSRD, and they dropped all of the really interesting initiatives they were doing maybe around waste, reallocation, or reuse or sustainable material and design projects, and they just went to compliance, so it kind of had the opposite effect of what, what it was supposed to have. And that is an example of where legislation I think can go wrong. And then obviously the EU has now rolled back on it again and you've got the omnibus that came out and watered it all down. So I'm not a believer that legislation is gonna help us in this space. I think we actually need to look at all of the other angles around the commercial benefit to organisations will force people to make the change.

Tom Raftery: 21:31

Okay. And what about things like circular design then? Is that becoming a serious business strategy in the marine world, or is it just still a nice to have?

Ollie Taylor: 21:41

I wouldn't say there's any great examples of people applying it, but I do feel it's gonna be one of the biggest levers you can use purely to decouple your organisation from exposure to very volatile supply chains. Again, it goes back to this post COVID, we saw a massive increase in input costs, which put huge pressure on the margin the profit margin bottom line for the business. So if you could create a business that isn't reliant on virgin material input, but is actually using this set of materials that you've entered into a circular solution and you are in control of it as a manufacturer and you know you're gonna get it back and it can go into the next product, you then control your input cost which I think is, we will see the move towards it. The big barrier towards circularity at the minute is the technology piece. Particularly in the marine industry where you use lots of composite materials, composites by their very nature and not designed for recyclability, they're designed to bring a fiber and a resin component together, and it sits like that forever, and it never comes apart again. So it's trying to find the technology breakthroughs which lot, lots of people are working on. You know, I remain hopeful that in the next five years we'll probably solve some of those big problems around thermo set resins but also the transition towards thermoplastic. Do we actually have to use thermoset composite structures? You could use thermoplastic. So yeah, for me it's a big commercial play. If I was setting up a manufacturing business today, I would absolutely be looking at creating a circular loop purely to protect my profit margin.

Tom Raftery: 23:43

Okay,

Ollie Taylor: 23:44

obviously there's a massive environmental upside too, as well.

Tom Raftery: 23:48

Sure, but I mean again, there's a tension there as well, isn't there, between profitability and sustainability. So if you can make something be sustainable and be profitable, it's a win-win because if it's not profitable, then it's not financially sustainable anyway, so it's not gonna work.

Ollie Taylor: 24:09

Absolutely in, in people don't buy really sustainable products purely because they're sustainable. The product has to come with a fundamental benefit. The example I often use in that space is you look at personal transport, so electric bicycles and the massive boom in that marketplace. Electric bicycles did so well in terms of replacing other forms of transport because they're fundamentally a better product than, let's call it an acoustic bicycle, you know, bicycle without, without, without an electric motor. You know, it fundamentally improved the, the, the customer experience of owning that product. So, that is ultimately, and I'm, you know, the sustainability evangelist, but at, at the end of the day, it comes out to commercials. Unless the product is better than the incumbent solution, people won't buy it. You know, they're not just going to buy it on sustainability. You know, the, there's a cost of living crisis and inflation at all times high. And interest rates. The financial and economic pressures on customer decisions have never been greater. So unless you're making products that have a genuine improvement, you're probably not going to be successful. And that's, that's utopia, right? If you create products that's better, but also lower impact, you know, is it a sensible price, has a good profit margin for the manufacturer? That's what we're all aiming for.

Tom Raftery: 25:27

Yeah, no, fair enough. And are customers and investors actually demanding this kind of transparency and low impact design, or is the pressure coming from somewhere else?

Ollie Taylor: 25:39

Customers. I think going back to the generational change comment, it is becoming more of a request for transparency around the impact, but it's still in its early stages, I personally feel. Where I think you see much bigger impact actually, is the investor angle where if you are, you know, talking to VCs, private equity, even institutional lenders. Most lending comes with specific criteria around the impact of your operations and your ability to decarbonise long term. And Where there's a greater driver of transparency and low impact is from the investor angle. So investors want to know across their holding period, say typically five to six years private equity investment. They want to know that it's not gonna become a stranded asset and that what we believe is likely to happen in the next six years. You know, does this business have the ability to decarbonise, to still maintain our investment? You know, give us a return on investment. So we do see that angle much more. I was, I was at a, a conference last week in London on this exact topic and they had, you know, a number of the bigger investors in the marine space on stage talking. And its key criteria that the business has some ability to decarbonise. It has a plan in place and it has transparent data. But the big challenge is that that data is quite variable across organisations. There's no standardised set of numbers. Obviously, you have your financial accounts, you have your balance sheet, your profit and loss, which make it easy from a financial angle to view whether a business is healthy or unhealthy or or whatever. And do you think you can make return? That environmental data, there is no standardised reporting format at the minute, so it's still a little bit the Wild West. It's down to each investor's particular set of criteria to say, we need this data, can you provide it? And often that's, you know, we can come in to help provide that data as well and do do the due diligence process.

Tom Raftery: 27:35

Okay. And what role do you see for predictive LCA tools? Could that become kind of a sustainability compass for designers?

Ollie Taylor: 27:44

That's our big belief is that we need to ensure LCA is as fundamental as 3D CAD packages computational fluid dynamics, finite element analysis. All these tools that we use today to create products that stand up to the, to the use case required. LCA needs to be in there as well. You need to calculate the impact of every choice you're making before you ever make it. And the key stat there is that. And, and you know, whether this is entirely true is, is highly variable, but 80% of a product's lifecycle impact is decided during the design phase. It's critical that we know there the impact of every choice we make.

Tom Raftery: 28:21

Okay, and what needs to happen to make these tools more accessible for SMEs and smaller players?

Ollie Taylor: 28:28

I think integration is one of the key barriers, so integration into your existing design package, your ERP system, so the data flow seamlessly. The downside of LCA is it can be quite time intensive to gather all the data in the right format, inject it into the software, read the insights, and then use those insights to make changes. So, what we are working on at the minute is automation between systems. So having open APIs that allow that data to flow seamlessly. Your bill of materials data, the mass data, your transport distances and miles from your supply chain. All of that sort of stuff needs to be kind of push button. It's not at the minute across any tool. I dunno anyone in the, in the LCA software space who's truly solved that. There's lots of us trying. But yes, standardised data flows between systems will make it so much quicker to get to the insight piece rather than just I'm organising my data and building a model.

Tom Raftery: 29:23

Okay. And what would you say is your biggest hope for where the industry will be in five to 10 years time?

Ollie Taylor: 29:31

I think people, will be implementing the actions from the insights generated from kind of lifecycle assessment based design. Unfortunately we're still in a place where lots of people talk a good game, but there's only a few that are really making the changes and, and putting the hard yards in. And recently with the political headwinds and the economic headwinds, a lot of people have used it as an opportunity to pull back on their sustainability initiatives. Meanwhile, climate change continues at an exponential rate. Like it's not gonna go away. It's still there in the background. It's still a big problem. You know, it's the largest existential problem humanity really needs to solve in the next 50 years. So my real hope is that yeah, people are actually, doing the work required to decarbonise their, their supply chains, their operations and all of that. And we're in a position where, yeah, lower impact boats are easier to buy for consumers and the data is there transparently for them to make the right choice let alone the manufacturers having the data from their supply chains.

Tom Raftery: 30:34

Okay. And what advice would you give to someone who's trying to bring sustainability into an industry that's traditionally been slow to change?

Ollie Taylor: 30:42

Keep working hard at it. There, there there'll be lots of setbacks. I mean, yeah. I feel sometimes I exist in an echo chamber where I can see a, a positive view of the future if we make certain changes, but maybe not everyone is aligned to that vision. So, I remain incredibly hopeful that if we keep beating the drum and giving people the tools and the education to use those tools they will have that same epiphany moment I had nine years ago where I realised actually the obvious solution that we thought was obvious and the right choice was the wrong choice. And the more people who are in those decision making roles who have that epiphany moment, I remain confident that we'll get that kind of groundswell of change makers that's required to build a better industry.

Tom Raftery: 31:28

Okay, and left field question for you, Ollie if you could have any person or character, alive or dead, real or fictional as a champion for sustainable shipping, who would it be and why?

Ollie Taylor: 31:46

That's a really hard question to answer. I need to think. I guess maybe it's a bit of a cliched answer, but you'd want someone like Winston Churchill. you know, in a time of crisis, he was seen as a stable, inspirational leader and people bought into, to his view of how we build a more prosperous future. People listen to him, right? He had that ability to kind of deliver these amazing speeches at key moments, which, which turned out to be pivotal moments in history. So maybe someone like him, you know, people really sat up and listened.

Tom Raftery: 32:21

Or, or Zelenskyy. I don't need a ride. I need a, I need ammunition.

Ollie Taylor: 32:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Doers. You want doers, you know, people who, who aren't scared to roll up their sleeves and get stuck in to make the change that's required.

Tom Raftery: 32:36

Super. Okay, Ollie we're coming towards the end of the podcast now. Is there any question I haven't asked that you wish I had or any aspect of this we haven't touched on that you think it's important for people to be aware of?

Ollie Taylor: 32:50

No, no, I think, I think we've, covered what, what we're up to. I mean, I've, I've talked a lot about the marine industry, but the concepts and the theories are universal across all industries. Be it decarbonising, aviation, automotive, sporting goods. It all starts with understanding where your impact occurs and, and the low hanging fruit that you can pursue to make a change.

Tom Raftery: 33:12

Very true. Yep. Great. Ollie if people would like to know more about yourself or any of the things we discussed on the podcast today, where would you have me direct them?

Ollie Taylor: 33:21

Best place probably is to follow us on LinkedIn. We are most active on there, so Marine Futures is, is kind of the company on LinkedIn. And then we've also got Marine Shift 360, which is the LCA product specifically for the marine industry. They've also both got websites, so quick Google and you'll find your way there.

Tom Raftery: 33:38

Great, and I'll put links to them in the show notes as well so everyone has access to them. Great, Ollie that's been really interesting Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today.

Ollie Taylor: 33:47

Thanks for having me.

Tom Raftery: 33:48

Okay. Thank you all for tuning into this episode of the Sustainable Supply Chain Podcast with me, Tom Raftery. Each week, thousands of supply chain professionals listen to this show. If you or your organization want to connect with this dedicated audience, consider becoming a sponsor. You can opt for exclusive episode branding where you choose the guests or a personalized 30 second ad roll. It's a unique opportunity to reach industry experts and influencers. For more details, hit me up on Twitter or LinkedIn, or drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook. com. Together, let's shape the future of sustainable supply chains. Thanks. Catch you all next time.