One of the largest levers for value that a procurement and sourcing organisation has is their supplier base. It's where the primary amount of innovation and efficiencies lie. That's not something that, I'm just saying that's a fact, right? ISM found in some of their studies that 55 to 65% of revenue created and, and innovations lie within the supplier base. Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in the world. Welcome to episode 84 of the Sustainable Supply Chain Podcast, the number one show laser focused on the intersection of sustainability and supply chains. I'm your host, Tom Raftery, and I'm absolutely delighted to have you joining me here today. Before we jump in, a quick reminder, the podcast now has a way for you to support it and unlock the full archive of a back episodes. By becoming a Sustainable Supply Chain+ subscriber for just five euros or dollars a month, less than the cost of a sandwich, you'll gain access to the entire back catalog of 80 plus episodes of the Sustainable Supply Chain Podcast, and 380 plus episodes of the Digital Supply Chain Podcast. The latest 30 days worth of episodes will remain free, but only subscribers can explore the full, deep well of insights I've built up over the years. Subscribers also get a shout out on the show and direct access to me for suggesting topics, guests, or even helping shape the future direction of the podcast. You'll find the subscribe link in the show notes or at tinyurl.com/ssc pod. Now let's talk supplier relationships. In procurement and supply chain circles, everyone knows the pressure, resilience, agility, sustainability cost, but often the real key to success lies in how we manage our suppliers. Not as transactional vendors, but as strategic partners. My guest today, Sam Jenks, Chief Revenue Officer at Kodiak Hub, has spent nearly a decade helping organisations rethink supplier relationship management. From making sense of fragmented data to unlocking innovation and ESG impact across global supply bases, Sam brings a wealth of experience and a fresh perspective. If you are serious about making supply chains smarter, more sustainable, and more resilient, this is an episode you won't want to miss. Sam, welcome to the podcast. Would you like to introduce yourself? Thank you very much, Tom. Happy to be on and thanks for having us on as well. So, Sam Jenks, CRO, as well as then SRM Enthusiast, I guess you could call me at Kodiak Hub, a solution that is active in the supplier relationship management space now for the last nine years. And on a significant growth journey, helping companies to be able to build smart, sustainable, and strategic supplier relationships as well. And Sam, tell me a little bit about your own journey. How did you get into SRM? Yeah, for sure. I think that you don't grow up as a kid and think I'm gonna work in procurement or procure tech. I'm pretty sure the majority of people, you know, we host the podcast ourselves tell the same story. Right. They fell into it in a lot of ways, and I'm sure as heck happy that I did. It doesn't help me to be able to explain what I do when I'm at a bar, of course. But it's it's a significantly impactful role I think in, in global businesses. My journey into software as a service and tech is really that I've cut my teeth and grown up at this company. I started actually as the third hire about 10 years ago, nine years ago at Kodiak Hub. Right after the founding I started because I saw a founder and a CEO with a vision and a, a dream to be able to make real impact in global supply chains. One of the things that Malin had, had said to me when I was in the hiring process is that, you know, she had lived the side of the quality sustainability, sourcing, procurement, professional. She was fed up with the homegrown solutions that were out there. She was fed up with having to use her ERP tooling as well as then, you know, homegrown solutions and Excel spreadsheets to fill the gap of supplier relationship management in the organisation. And she was seeing people like myself, right, running around in sales and marketing with our glossy CRM solutions and think to herself, why the heck don't I have something like this on the buy side of the business? That still, you know, resonates true today. We are also on a, on a mission to be able to make impact in, in global supply chains. And I don't think that you become an enterprise software as a service as we are Kodiak hub without, you know, being able to solve enterprise problems. And I think that, you know, Malin's deep knowledge and understanding as the founder of this company, of what some of those problems are that are occurring and continue to occur in global supply chains. I think that that's, been kind of at the core of the mission that we're on to be able to continue to grow so that we can create impact in those organisations. Okay, and the name Kodiak Hub. Obviously Kodiak comes from the Kodiak bear. Tell me a little bit about that and how that influences the company. How, how did it arise as the company name, and how does it influence the company? Well, you know, I think that we've adopted more the name, than the name has guided the business, right? Malin's initial ideology behind Kodiak was that there was three bears with three different purposes. Kodiak, Gobi and Arctic. Gobi being a more upstream solution for distributors and traders, whereas Arctic was meant and thought out to be a carbon calculation solution. Still utilise some of those things and working with them in the background as well. But Kodiak is the solution that took off. We originally were actually called Kodiak Rating and did a pretty significant rebrand, which I think was a saving grace as well. Right. A lot of people came to us and thought to themselves, well, aren't you a credit rating institute? When in reality, of course we're a a an SRM platform, right? A solution where buyers and suppliers meet to be able to get things done. With that being said, I think that's, you know, we are a hub. So Kodiak remained and we became Kodiak hub from that perspective. But I do think that there's an element of kind of a bar napkin domain name aspect to the, the original names of Kodiak. With that being said, hey, Kodiak bears are altruistic animals. They care a lot. And, you know, our, our four pillars of our, our values as an organisation are to be curious, caring courageous and, and at the same time make sure that we, we always are focused on our customers as well. Yeah, it, it fits our organisation quite well 'cause we're trying to do something cool, which is our last value as an organisation. Nice. Okay. And why SRM? Why do you think that supplier relationships are mission critical? What's changed to make them so urgent? Yeah, I think that it's a big question, right? Let's take a step back within that, I think that procurement and sourcing has went through an awesome transition in the last, well I think that there's been some eras of it, right? It's kind of been this wave of professionalisation of the procurement, sourcing, and supply chain function. Which one could maybe say kind of began 10 to 15 years ago, and then I think that there was then the emergence of the first digital transformation wave, right? Kind of during 2017, 2018. We've now entered into a new era as well, where it's not just about transformation, it's about augmentation, about orchestration, right? Within these organisations. But I think that we've also seen right in the last, four to five years, global pandemic resource shortages, you know, massive scale supply chain disruption. Also, you know, geopolitical strains in, in the world. Procurement's role is becoming, you know, more, aligned with the C-Suites objectives day by day. It's becoming mission critical. And one of the largest levers for value that a procurement and sourcing organisation has is their supplier base. It's where the primary amount of innovation and efficiencies lie. That's not something that, I'm just saying that's a fact, right? ISM found in some of their studies that 55 to 65%% of revenue created and, and innovations lie within the supplier base. And I think that with that being said putting together with the new era that we're in this kind of VUCA market as many people like to talk about. I just had Chris Sawchuk on an episode of our podcast as well who is a, a lead advisor within procurement at the Hackett Group. And within this VUCA market, I think that everybody recognises that agility within a supplier base, the ability to be able to truly understand your deeper tiers of the relationships that are in your, your vendor base. On top of that as well, being able to locate quickly alternative lines of supply. It's necessary, right? Look at what's going on in the United States with the administration that's in place. Tariff kind of announcements are creating frenzy and volatility. And when you are put in that position, obviously there needs to be a re-imagination of a, of a vendor base of supply chain. That's of course one of the things that really has put supplier relationship management into focus in the last few years as well. Okay. And from your perspective, what's broken in the way most companies manage supplier data and relationships these days? I think that this is also something that is a little bit more foundational, right? You, you, you ask people about supplier relationship management and you'll get, from five different people, five different answers. I think that that's maybe the starting point. Look at Gartner, for example, one of the leading analyst groups within technology, they don't even have a category for supplier relationship management. The closest thing that they do have is supplier information management, which is of course the foundation to any good supplier relationship management. I would say that that's probably where things are broken the most, is the understanding, the positioning of supplier relationship management. I think that it's long been seen as a subset of source to contract. Going back to the, the classic models of Peter Crowley, which we all need to respect and understand are very important. You know, the opportunity to be able to segment a vendor post-contract, the ability to be able to then use that segmentation to approach that relationship in a particular way. One should approach supplier relationship management, but I think that, know, if we go back to the fact of today is that supplier relationship management is equally a lifecycle approach as your ERP technology is. If we talk about what is some of the things that are foundationally broken, well it is related back to supplier information management. But additionally, it relates back to the ability to be able to drive forward a relationship over time. And that includes a lot of things, risk management, compliance, you know, now the, the, the emergence of, of an expectation on ESG and transforming the way that a vendor base looks, the ability to have a more resilient supply chain, right? But also the ability to be able to leverage that vendor base to drive performance collaboration. And I think that that is maybe one of the things that businesses are foundationally getting wrong is, is that it's a journey, right? And we talk about it as a journey in our business, whereas a lot of organisations want to get to that pinnacle of self-actualization, right? It's almost like a, the, the Maslow's hierarchy. They wanna drive performance and collaboration in their organisation, and that's their mean, or that's kind of the end goal of SRM, but they forget about the foundational things that you gotta get right along the way. You know, related back to some of those topics that I spoke about. And it all starts with, you know, good supply information management. And let's be honest, procurement is drowning in information and starved for knowledge. That's the way that we see supplier relationship management is how can we create insights for people to act upon, not just to be able to reposit information, data, and documentation, which I think is traditionally some of the way that, you know, supplier management is looked upon. So seeing as you brought it up, how do you create insights from all that information? In our particular technology, it's focussed on not only feeding in data from third party solutions, but also being able to feed in data from, things that are otherwise lost. Whether that be because your, your systems aren't talking to each other, your ERP data isn't being, you know, put to use to drive insights around performance, you know, on quality or, supply chain delivery, commercial aspects. But also that data that you can otherwise, you know, lose by not capturing it, it's, it's more qualitative insights from internal stakeholders or supplier stakeholders themselves. Right. I mean, the way that we typically like to look at data, and how it can be captured is the classic model of in company or external data, right? If you, if you were to put it on an axis, right? So we, have our horizontal axis with in-company data, right? So kind of proprietary data or external data sources. And then of course on that vertical axis, we would put then, structured and unstructured data. And I think with the emergence of AI, there is grand opportunities to be able to really make sense and make use of the unstructured data that's out there, because there's statistics that show that the majority of data that we have in our, in our day to day is unstructured. And that it's typically only used once. Right? It's in your emails, it's in your responses that you're getting back from vendors on your onboarding forms. It's in your performance evaluations that you're doing. It's in your audits that you're out on site with. It's in the non-conformity actions that you're putting into place. It's in your improvement proposals that you're suggesting to vendors. It's in your ESG data that you're capturing back. Our focus is to be able to not just allow that data to become exhaust. This concept of data exhaust is so abundant within procurement, right? We have to be able to figure out how do we make insights on the backside of it? And I think, you know, our solution, we focus on the rating methodology. It helps to be able to stop, you know, risks and opportunities fast. It's kind of built upon the classic ideologies of, of RAG methods, right? Red, amber, green, you know, where's my risks, where's my opportunity? When it's all said and done, it's, it's about how do we make sense of in-company and external data, structured and unstructured data, right? That's the equation that every business needs, to be able to start, grasping and, and grappling with. Okay. And what are the kind of top insights that organisations should be looking for in their SRM solutions? I think that, you know, like I said, the, the, the ultimate goal of a lot of businesses performance, right? But the way we look at insights is how can we be able to build as balanced of a picture and a profile as possible of a vendor? Right? A 360 degree view because what we can be able to learn from external data sources, you know, third party risk, financial stability, or sanction lists, their media coverage, right? Those are all foundational for a reputational risk profile. If I don't have a good understanding of the financial stability of a vendor, why in the heck would I care about their ability to perform? Right? Equally so though we do need to understand that vendor themselves, based upon their own view. What are your business practices? What are the, modes of operating that you have in place? What is the certification that you have in place that we can be able to prove out that you in fact, are working with those modes of operating? Then we go out on site, of course, and also are able to verify that in way of audits and things of that sort. And then the last piece, of course is real output, right? And I think that this is in our business, what we talk about a lot, how do we tie together practices and performance? It's a very interesting concept, right? The vendor can say that they're doing one thing. I have an ISO 9001 certification. I'm great at quality management, right? The quality of my parts and commodities are up to par with, you know, global standards. Whereas then we start seeing a lot of claims or nonconformities or defect parts per million within the actual output and performance. This is where a very interesting insight lies, the ability to be able to match again, the business practices with the performance of a vendor. And for us, that's the importance of building a more holistic, more 360 degree view of a vendor based upon, again, that data that is in company and external structured and unstructured. Okay. And. obviously, this is the Sustainable Supply Chain Podcast, so how can strong supplier relationships drive sustainability outcomes as opposed to just being around compliance? Yeah, it's a, it's one of the things that has climbed in the expectations as well as then also the overall objectives that procurement has upon them, but also that they have on their whiteboards. Right. I do see that we are transitioning to an era where sustainability is either part of company's DNA or not. Obviously, we all know this, right? The majority of the emissions in your business. If we're talking about the environmental part of that kind of ESG equation related back to sustainability, they lie within Scope three, right? And that's, that's the supply chain, that's the vendor base. But I think that there is this aspect of, you know. There's nothing worse for sustainability than poor quality. Our founder and CEO says that all the time. If I have defect parts and I need to reship those, that is then ramping up additional manufacturing and production that did not need to happen. Right. It is then creating additional emissions to be able to ship those parts across the world. And I think that that for us is at the core of the importance of supplier relationship management, but just, good diligence in understanding the performance of your vendors, period. Right. And again, ESG gets kind of pigeonholed so often. And listen, I don't blame organisations for looking at things, you know, or other technologies like EcoVadis. I mean, they are the moniker they're the moniker for sustainable supply chains. And they've done a great job at lifting the importance of sustainability in supply chains. But the fact is, is that the EcoVadis framework as many others is also very focused on business practices, rather than real outputs. And ESG and sustainability within supply chains often gets very pigeonholed as kind of a, a tick box exercise rather than the ability to be able to make real impact. And I think that again, that's the importance of focusing on supplier relationships as a lifecycle approach, rather than just focusing on tech, ticking a box and making sure that a vendor has the correct certifications in place. That's important as well. But there's another aspect of it, right, which is the real lifecycle, the real performance. And seeing, as you mentioned, real performance, real impact. Act. Have you seen any standout examples of where better SRM led to real environmental or social improvements? Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, we have customers that work within the food space, not to be named by name, but that had pretty significant issues within their vendor base leading to reputational risk. You know, they adopted our solution. I mean, their, their, their, share price took a massive hit. On the back end of that, they adopted our solution and you know, have a significantly compliant vendor base now. They're able to follow up on the quality of that vendor base within audits and being able to then tie back that data of that quality assurance back to the sourcing and procurement organisation. Obviously our solution is not a solution for anyone and everyone. Our sweet spot within direct materials, right? We primarily work with industrial businesses. We absolutely have companies as well that work with our solution and are focused in a service-based business. But the thing that those companies still have in common with manufacturing organisations that quality and, and sustainability still matter in their supply chain. And they still have global and complex supply chain with intricacies and data architectures right? Now when it comes to where we are are, are really excellent. And I think the importance when we come back to again, the idea that there's nothing worse for sustainable supply chains than poor quality, is that quality and procurement, they should be walking hand in hand in supplier relationships. But in reality, the silos in many global organisations are pretty significant within those two organisations. And audit happens over here and that insight never really gets fed back to sourcing or procurement for any type of true action. Right. And I think that that's where we've seen, you know, significant improvements and ability for solutions for supplier relationship management to make a real impact. But the fact is as well here, Tom, you know, I can sit and talk about our technology till my face turns blue. It's this classic, you know, kind of model of PPT that's always existed, right? People process and then technology. Right. It is a mindset shift that's required. It is a team that needs to be in place and that can then be guided by good technology. And I think that, you know, this has to stay at the core of the way that we're thinking about creating sustainable supply chains, right? It's not just about the technology. There is no silver bullet to this, right? And for companies starting from a low base, what's the biggest shift needed to become more strategic around this? Selling in the business case to start, right. I think that teams that we work alongside of very often are utilising homegrown solutions to be able to get the job done that, that then an SRM solution could be able to fill. Right. And the reason why is because Gartner came out with a pretty significant and pretty shocking statistic. Procurement teams only get 17% of the technology they look to achieve buy. This means that if I go with 10 solutions that I wanna be able to buy, I only get two of them at best, right? That means that getting a split of budget to be able to actually impact my supplier relationship or performance management is not easy. Right. And there is other functions in the organisation that are equally vying for that slice of the pie, right? It's all about building the case when it's all said and done. And I think that this is tough for procurement, right? Procurement is a function that is in a business, meant save. Okay? So why would we spend, and I think that this is a psyche. And it's a mindset shift because procurement are also professional buyers, but they very rarely buy things for themselves. Right. And I think that that also impacts the ability for businesses to be able to sell their case. I think that the other aspect is that we're selling so much when we do sell the case on ROI, right? Because everybody always is obsessed with how much money am I gonna make back? It's strange to me as well because CFOs have started to act like VC firms. I mean, who the hell cares what the return on investment's gonna be? Obviously it's important that you get a return on investment. Any efficiencies in a business is always gonna eventually bring return on investment, right? Whether that's on operational efficiencies or more insights to lead to more strategic decisions. I think that we need to start looking at what is the COI the cost of inaction. If I do nothing, if I sit in my status quo, what will be my outcome? But it's hard to be able to calculate the cost of opportunity lost by not doing something. And I think that that's where companies are needing to strengthen if they are starting from square one and they, they want to be able to take a journey and impact their organisation with new technology, new processes, and invest in supplier relationship management. Invest in really anything within the source to pay process when it comes to technology or programs or people, they need to build that case they need to be able to do it focused more so on COI than ROI as well. Okay And is the goal to reduce risk or create value, or is that a false choice? I think that it's both, right? I'm not gonna give you a political answer. What I'm gonna give you though is is insight into what we're hearing, right? Again, I'm going back to this conversation that I had with Chris Sawchuck because it, it was insightful. The Hackett Group, they release every single year a survey. And that particular survey indicates the areas of investment for procurement organisations as well as then also the primary objectives or priorities that they have coming into a new year. The most fascinating thing about this is that the Hackett Group, for the first time ever, I'm pretty sure they've been releasing the same study in, in the space of procurement and sourcing for 15 to 20 years. And for the first time ever, because of this disruption, of course, of, of what's going on in the world not only related back to of course, geopolitical aspects, but primarily related to AI. And the adoption and the emergence of AI. For the first time ever in 15 to 20 years, they redid a mid-year pulse of that particular study. And the shifts within just five to six months time were significant between when they were collating the data in fall of 24 to what's going on right now when they finished that pulse update in May of 25, but one of the things that he said to me was that five to 10 years ago when he used to go and speak with CPOs, what they would say to him is, yeah, you know, number one, number four, number six, number 10 on that list. Those are, those are all priorities, you know, cost and you know, supplier performance management and sustainability as well as then also, yeah, something of surrounding digital transformation or our operating model. Yeah, those four or five, those are, those are definitely aligned with my priorities as well. I would agree with them. He said is that when he goes and talks to procurement professionals today and he shows them the list of the 10 top 10 priorities, and he says, which one of these resonate with you the most? He said, it's almost always the same. The answer is all of them, and I think that this is, in a lot of ways, the way that the world is, is moving right. There is compounding expectations on every single function to do a lot more with less or just the same amount of resources. And of course, technology is going to help us to be able to do this. Good process and more intelligent people entering into the workforce will help us to be able to do this. But the expectations are growing and growing. Right. So back to the question of like, is it focused on risk? Absolutely. Is it focused on value? Absolutely. Right. The traditional role of risk management and savings isn't going anywhere. But there's kind of this new emergence of total cost of ownership, of, of the, the challenges and the responsibilities that procurement plays within an organisation, vis-a-vis the supplier base. They have to have transparency. They have to re have resilience, they have to innovate. They have to bring new products to the market. They have to be able to grapple with the sustainable trade challenges, right? They need to be able to not just have a false effective vendor that's risk averse. In 2025, a procurement organisation is expected to have vendor that is cost prohibitive, right? That, that, that it's at a good price. It's a risk averse supplier. The product is bought with good quality in a resilient supply chain. They have a agile line of supply to be able to swap out that vendor if they would like. Oh, and by the way emissions need to be the case of whatever product or commodity that we're buying. So again, the responsibilities and the expectations are compounding. So yes, it's risk and its value when it's all said and done. All right. And where do you see the procurement role and the organisation's priorities evolving in the next five to 10 years? I do think that like AI is the, the, the flavor of the day, but it's gonna be, table stakes moving forward. So I would say AI, you know, as a, as a big impact. And something else that, that Chris mentioned to me because, because what they saw is that AI jumped in their study of listed priorities from just six months ago, from, I think it was number seven or eight to number two on the list in May of 2025 of top priorities. And this is a robust study that they do right. Businesses across north America, EMEA and APAC as well. And the reason why I think that AI is going to make the biggest impact is because the applications are plentiful. And I think that people are starting to look at what is the problem, and going to AI as the first idea of a solution. And I think that we're less concerned now with the security or the, you know, oh God, it's going to be able to steal my identity. People are now focused on how can I be able to put this to work? And we're starting to get a lot more savvy with the use cases of AI. And of course when a lot of people talk about AI or applications of AI, they're talking about, you know, Gemini or ChatGPT and, and the use of that, but even so, right, the ways that we can be able to adopt this technology is significant. And I think that we're moving beyond the grasp of generative AI into the, grasping of this Agentic AI, right? it's not just about, oh, we're gonna have agents talking with agents that can negotiate with each other. We're gonna be able to have, for example, agents in the background of our organisations, right? So example I get in a vendor response on a self-assessment for example. I'll maybe have an agentic capability that sits in the background that is not part of the user interface, right? But that then spits out to me and says, Hey, these particular items surrounding their tax details, surrounding their response on this particular ISO certificate, or this particular level of liability that might not truly be aligned with this vendor, right? Maybe you could go and look at that. The interfaces, I think, will evolve for sure. They'll become less clicks, less input, in technology. But I that beyond, more than anything, we will put data to use in a new way. And when I say data, I not only mean again, in-company or proprietary data one owns, but also, you know, external data, both structured and unstructured. And do you see any sustainability wins that Agentic AI will enable? I think that there is absolutely use cases. I mean, we go back to the aspect of, for example, what I was just talking about, being able to extract larger sets of data and make sense of them, right? Which large language models can be able to do. There's a lot of value within that. One of the areas that's the most complex still is, is of course emissions reporting within Scope three, right. We'll see, I haven't seen anything on the market currently that says, you know, this is a problem that's gonna get solved tomorrow with agentic AI because I think capturing the data itself still remains so difficult. But from the perspective of being able to ensure good business practices, I think that we, we, we, we already see that there's a big use case and a good impact to be made there for sure. It's relatively still a very young technology, right? And the applications of it, the solutions to be had, are still relatively immature, you know, in their infancy. I mean, again, look, just six months ago where we were as our adoption. I know that that's the case in my world, in my day-to-day work and in our business, in my sales organisation, right? And I think that every team is gonna go through that transition. At what pace? That's gonna decide, pretty much like you said, the ability to be able to make impact in, in global supply chains. From a sustainable perspective. It's gonna be able to, to choose pretty much the winners and the losers of tomorrow, in my opinion. Okay, and if we have this conversation again in 2030, what do you hope will have fundamentally changed in the buyer supplier dynamic. I would hope to say that relationships can be focused more on value than cost or savings. Right. I think that we've been in a very volatile market. We've seen, you know, inflation in a way that we've never seen since, you know, decades before, and I think that that has created a pretty prickly situation in, in, in global supply chains and buyer to supply relationships, right? Because people don't wanna pay, know, two x for the same product or service or commodity, right? But that's the reality that a lot of global buyers are, are as experiencing. I think that one of the things that I hope to be able to see is more resilient supply chains, right? Because we see that a lot of companies are working towards that, supply chains that are reimagined and ready for, you know, potential disruption. And that buyer supplier relationships are central to that as well. The ability to be able to act quickly, to be able to collaborate, to be able to innovate together in times that are turbulent because it's the age old saying, the only thing that's constant is change, and I think that we have a lot of change in front of us in the next five years. Sure, If you were pitching smart SRM to the dragons on dragons den, what's your one sentence hook? It is the ability to turn supplier relationships into a competitive advantage, Nice, and an even further left field question. If you could have any person or character, alive or dead, real or fictional as a champion for smart SRM, who would it be and why? Not because I'm a fan, but. I've been using this quote quite a bit recently, and maybe it would be Winston Churchill. He once said, never let a good crisis go to waste. And I think that's right now that kind of describes the way that we need to be thinking in our global supply chains and in supplier relationship management. Okay. We're coming towards the end of the podcast now, Sam, is there any question I didn't ask that you wish I did or any aspect of this we haven't touched on that you think it's important for people to be aware of? Maybe what I'm doing this weekend, I'm not sure. But other than that, no. I think you, you covered a lot of bases for certain. I think that we're going into an exciting time in procurement and sourcing. I'm happy to be a part of it. Thank you for what you're doing to be able to lift the stores in space. Thank you. Thank you. Sam. If people would like to know more about yourself or any of the things we discussed on the podcast today, where would you have me direct them? I am on LinkedIn, like just about everybody else. Sam Jenks is my name. You'll find me there. They wanna learn more about Kodiak Hub. Feel free to take a look at our website, can be able to peruse our capabilities, our methodology, our ideology surrounding supplier relationship management. And also if you're interested in seeing the technology, of course you can get in touch with our team via our website as well. Fantastic. Sam, that's been really interesting. Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today. Appreciate it, Tom. Okay. Thank you all for tuning into this episode of the Sustainable Supply Chain Podcast with me, Tom Raftery. Each week, thousands of supply chain professionals listen to this show. If you or your organization want to connect with this dedicated audience, consider becoming a sponsor. You can opt for exclusive episode branding where you choose the guests or a personalized 30 second ad roll. It's a unique opportunity to reach industry experts and influencers. For more details, hit me up on Twitter or LinkedIn, or drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook. com. Together, let's shape the future of sustainable supply chains. Thanks. Catch you all next time.