So the companies that are acting now are gonna be the ones that have the most robust plans in place. They're not responding, you know, in real time to those pressures. They've developed these mechanisms to better measure, optimise their plans, so they'll be in a good position to mitigate their own footprint. I mean, the time to act was probably 20 years ago, but the, the next best time to act is, is really right now. Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in the world. Welcome to episode 80 of the Sustainable Supply Chain Podcast, the only show focusing exclusively on the intersection of sustainability and supply chains. I'm your host, Tom Raftery, and I'm thrilled to have you here today. A huge thank you to this podcast's, amazing supporters, Kieran Ognev, and Alicia Farag. You folks really help to make this podcast possible. If this podcast regularly brings you value and you too would like to help me keep the podcast going. Support starts at just three euros or dollars a month, less than the price for coffee, and you can find the link in the show notes or at tiny url.com/ssc pod. Now picture this. As we know, at least 60% of the world's carbon emissions are hiding in supply chains. They're scattered across oceans, factories, farms, and fleets you don't even control. Now imagine having the data, the tech and the influence to actually shrink that footprint while still hitting deadlines, dodging disruptions, and keeping costs in check. That's exactly where my guest today spends her days. Saskia van Gendt isn't just talking sustainability. She's building the AI driven, end-to-end tools, global brands are using right now to cut waste, trim scope three emissions, and make supply chains more resilient than ever. From optimising sourcing decisions in real time to turning returns into inventory instead of landfill, Saskia's work is where companies' climate targets stop being PowerPoint slides and start becoming operational reality. If you lead a supply chain, or influence one, this is a conversation that'll show you how to make sustainability a competitive advantage instead of a compliance headache. But before we get into that, in the next couple of weeks, I'll be chatting with Steve Saltzgiver, Director of Fleet Success at RTA Fleet, Sam Jenks, CRO for Kodiak Hub, Paul Byrnes, CEO at Maverick Ai. And Tara Millburn, founder and CEO of Ethical Swag. Now back to today's episode, and as I mentioned, my special guest on the show today is Saskia Saskia, welcome to the podcast. Would you like to introduce yourself? Thank you Tom. Very nice to be here. I am Saskia van Gendt, the Chief Sustainability Officer at Blue Yonder. Superb and Saskia for people who may be unaware under a rock or something. Tell us a little bit about Blue Yonder. Blue Yonder is a leader in end-to-end supply chain transformation. We use AI and multi-tier network to support our businesses and their supply chains from end-to-end, allowing them to operate more sustainably, which I know we're gonna get into. Also scale profitably and ultimately delight customers all at machine speed. And a couple of quick numbers around Blue Yonder, you know, market capitalisation, number of customers, markets served, that kind of thing. So we are more than 3000 customers, and our three main verticals are retail, manufacturing, and logistics service providers. And we have 12 of the top 25 manufacturers, 16 of the top 25 CPG companies, and 23 of the top retailers in our platform. So we're helping customers everything from planning, inventory planning how they're manufacturing, doing warehousing, transportation, returns, so it truly is end to end. Fantastic. And you yourself, you've worked in everything from the EPA to Rothy's to Blue Yonder. What drew you to focus your career on supply chains, as I assume, because you want to be in sustainability. Well, as you mentioned, I've been in sustainability for about 20 years now and started in government working on more like voluntary programs, all under the heading of reducing waste. So in the US it's called the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act. So I was working on programs around reducing packaging, reducing food waste, reducing construction material waste. And meanwhile I was observing everything that was happening in the private sector and seeing a number of companies start to adopt more sustainable practices, both from a regulatory standpoint, but also just voluntarily and seeing how they could differentiate with their consumers and their products. So I went over to two different brands. You mentioned Method Products, which is all different cleaning products and detergents. And then Rothy's, which started as a footwear business, but then expanded into other categories like accessories. For most of my career I was really helping implement sustainability programs working across all different teams, and that included supply chain. But it was, you know, one of many teams that I was working with. And, there was a realisation that in order to go and achieve carbon reduction at the scale and really the urgency that's needed, we need to look into supply chains for carbon mitigation. I think it's something like 60% or more of global carbon emissions are coming from supply chains. So for me it just felt like, okay, I've been trying to help companies become perfect. You know, smaller companies become perfect. And, demonstrate to the marketplace that that's possible, but to really have the influence and carbon mitigation at the urgency that's needed I just felt like technology is the way to do that. And it has to be looking at supply chains, which is, the last frontier when it comes to a lot of the carbon mitigation. Sure. Yeah. And you've, you've seen it from multiple sides, as you said, government, consumer products, and now enterprise tech. What. What shifts have you noticed in how seriously companies are taking supply chain emissions over that time? Yeah, it has been a shift, and I think a lot of companies will start logically with looking within their own four walls and their direct operations. So if you're familiar with the greenhouse gas methodologies, it's defined by scope. So scope one and scope two are more direct emissions, maybe coming from a tailpipe or coming from a smoke stack. Whereas Scope three are all the value chain emissions that come from the broader supply chain. And as companies move through that maturity curve and start to understand their direct emissions more closely, and implement everything from energy efficiency at the factory level, maybe lighting efficiency, looking at more efficient equipment we see a lot in retail how retail is directly reducing their footprint through reduced refrigeration, things like that. But the value chain emissions, like I said, is really the, the next frontier. It has been a little bit more challenging to measure and directly influence the impacts from supply chains because, by definition it's indirect, right? You don't always have that direct control. But as companies start to make increasing progress on their direct emissions, it has become a big focus. This is something that I've been actively working on at Blue Yonder. Supporting better measurement and data and analytics of those value chain emissions and footprints. But then most importantly, how do we create solutions that help address and proactively mitigate future footprints and help companies set and meet the, the goals that they've set around carbon mitigation and waste. And, scope three is obviously the indirect emissions you were referring to. They are, as you rightly said, notoriously difficult. It's also gotta be challenging because they're outside your scope of control, not just your access. It's, it's hard to get them because you gotta get your suppliers reporting them into, but they're also hard to control. I gotta think, for example, it occurred to me during the week that if one of your customers is a, for example, fossil fuel company, your scope three emissions are gonna be through the roof. no? Yeah, I mean, by virtue of how the scopes are defined one company's Scope one and Scope two emissions are gonna be another company's Scope three emissions. So there's definitely this kind of shared responsibility, and I think that's the power of supply chain, is everything is connected and that influence can be diffuse because maybe you have a buying relationship with your direct suppliers, so you have some influence over which suppliers you can source from. And if you have a more environmentally preferred supplier, then you can preferentially move sourcing to them and use the kind of financial levers to have that influence. But you'd have less influence over their suppliers and those suppliers' suppliers. So deeper in tier, that becomes harder to even understand, you know, what suppliers those may be. And then also how do you initiate that chain of effect that ultimately goes maybe back to the farm or back to the drilling site where those emissions may be occurring. Sure. And what are some of the biggest blockers then you're seeing when it comes to reducing supply chain emissions? Is it data? Is it culture? Is it regulations? Is it a combination? We're seeing actually a lot of, especially in Europe, the regulatory pressures are starting to unlock a little bit of this influence that we're talking about because it's creating more of a level playing field around what companies need to be reporting and then ultimately supporting the Paris Agreement, carbon mitigation goals as well. So that level playing field is supporting especially larger companies to have more transparency around their full value chain, going deeper into the different tiers and then ultimately trying to, or, requiring companies to show that they're making progress towards those goals. So regulatory drivers are, are significant. I think it's also this, and we see this a lot. I'm sure you, you talk to companies all the time around their supply chains is this overlap between supply chain resiliency and sustainability because there's all of these different disruptions that companies are facing. Could be around weather events that are becoming more dramatic. Geopolitical events that are requiring rerouting of vessels. Even sourcing availability from country to country if there's droughts. You know, you're always having to create more resilience in your supply chain, and that overlaps very closely with the ability to influence and have more sustainable supply chain. So one of the things at Blue Yonder, our network is allowing for direct visibility of your immediate suppliers, but also through that network, indirect supplier accountability so that you can make very agile adjustments and source according to what's available and what has the lowest carbon footprint ultimately. Okay. Does it also then allow you to set say, a carbon budget for your organisation for a year and then therefore preferentially choose suppliers based on that carbon budget that you've set out for that year? Yeah, there are ways to develop those mechanisms. So earlier I was speaking to, if you have multiple suppliers and you're measuring their performance on, any number of different environmental or social attributes, then you can start to create those preferential sourcing mechanisms. So if you have to choose between several different suppliers based on availability or the demand signal that's being sent, then you can create that mechanism to preferentially source from those suppliers. In terms of carbon budget, we have been developing new solutions to help companies understand how their near term plans are marching towards the goals that they've set. So now we're in 2025, we have a lot of our customers have set 2025 goals, 2030 goals. Some have set 2050 goals. Though, the further out that you get in that goal setting process, the more challenging it is to understand, are you on the trajectory to meet those goals? So understanding how plans around manufacturing locations, transportation, material, sourcing, how that's tracking towards goals and doing scenario planning to understand where there's different trade-offs. And where different scenarios are gonna help you lead in the right trajectory. Those are incredibly valuable to customers that are trying to figure out, not just measuring and reporting backwards, but making progress towards the public goals and, and ultimately mandates that have been set. Sure, and you mentioned geopolitics and other kind of things, but obviously one of the big things that that's disrupting supply chains right now apart from geopolitics or I guess it's aligned with geopolitics, is tariffs and especially in the US. How are they shaping or distorting sustainability efforts in global supply chains? Are there unintended consequences or are they having any impact on sustainability, particularly in supply chains? Well, this is something that's truly playing out in real time, right? Because the tariff landscape is being charted and agreements are being developed, as we speak. So that's something we're closely tracking. And as you can imagine, our customers are managing global supply chains, so these tariffs are affecting them in a number of different ways. From a sustainability standpoint there's a couple of things that I'm monitoring. And I think will again, play out as we start to see how large the tariffs are, and where they're really centered geographically. So for example every country will have its own energy mix, whether it be a balance of renewable energy, coal powered energy, natural gas, and all of those have different carbon intensities. So as we see the balance of carbon intensities shifting from country to country and raw materials and goods being produced in countries that have higher or lower carbon intensities just in the, the national grid or in the utility, we'll start to see, you know, how that influences the total carbon emissions, which is a global issue, not a, geographical issue. So that's something, that we're definitely looking at. The other one is just availability of some, you know, more preferential materials, thinking about recycled content. Like, for example, in China and some of the markets that have been creating textiles and fashion and footwear for many years, they also have clusters of raw material suppliers and, and other material suppliers that are serving those industries. So things like availability of recycled plastic content, polyester that's going into textiles, those tend to be clustered around those manufacturing centers. You know, just thinking about if the sourcing locations change from China to maybe another Asian country, how that availability and ultimately cost of recycled content may also shift alongside those patterns. Okay. And we've seen here in Europe, Europe has rolled out its CBAM, the carbon border adjustment mechanism, which is a way that Europe tries to level the playing field so that when European companies are importing goods from outside Europe, if they're from a higher carbon intensity grid, for example, then they get a carbon tax put on them on the way in so that they're on a level playing field with European manufacturers. Are you seeing that having any impact on your customers or is it a bit early yet to tell? It is early, but when we're thinking about customer planning cycles, they're already thinking about, you know, the next several years, five years. So it is a factor that is coming into play. As you described, it really becomes a cost evaluation. You know, is it worth the premium? Becomes more of a premium of sourcing from a country with a intense carbon emissions just associated with those imports. So all of those cost variables, can and, and will be introduced into the total planning process. So we're very much seeing that as a need. And the longer term strategy could be influenced by that, right? Knowing that the, availability of materials can change relatively quickly, but the utility grid and the carbon intensity by country, that takes a lot longer to change. So you'll see companies starting to try to preferentially source those cheaper imports based on lower carbon intensity and, trying to develop that as part of their near and long-term plans. Sure, sure. And I monitor the, grid here in Spain regularly for the intensity of renewables on it. Some days it's north of 80% renewables. Other days it's down around 40%. It's quite variable. So, I gotta think as well, you'd need some kind of AI monitoring it in real time almost to see, you know, is it more intense one day than another? It leads me to wonder. AI then is obviously gonna be required, not just for that example, but for lots of other smarter decisions. Are you seeing that happen? Are you seeing AI move the needle on sustainability today? It's interesting because for the sustainability dialogue around AI, there's two different camps that I'm, seeing or hearing at least. One, is around truly the concern around , Increase in energy use, increase in water associated with all of the data centers and powering AI. There's definitely that group that is making sure that as we're marching towards decarbonising our grids and onboarding more renewable energy, how do we make sure we have enough energy to match that demand so that's one camp. And then the second is, like you're saying, all of the opportunity that can come from applications of AI. And as we're thinking about deployment of AI to support sustainability goals, we need to make sure that balance sheet is really mapping in favor of reduced carbon emissions. And that net net we're not producing more carbon emissions from the increased energy use. So with that said, within supply chain solutions, I think there are enormous opportunities for AI to supercharge all of the optimisation that can come from the inherent, logic systems within the solutions. So if you think about especially data sharing up and down the supply chain and these, massive amounts of data that are required to understand how a demand signal all the way at the consumer level can go into the factory planning cycle. And that information really informing, what needs to be made, where it needs to be shipped, how much needs to be made, the benefits that can be accrued, just reducing your waste from excess inventory, really matching that demand signal more precisely. That's just one example where we see AI being a really powerful engine for optimising all of the different decisions that need to happen. Sure. Yeah. There, there's an, an enormous number of potential use cases for it, and I've come across many of them on this podcast over the years. Really, it's, it's fascinating to see. How about, I mean, you mentioned your customers are retailers, manufacturers, logistics companies, are they approaching sustainability and AI differently, or are the challenges more universal than we might expect? Well, I would say within supply chain, all of those different types of companies are focused on carbon reduction and waste reduction. So those tend to be universal goals as well as a big focus on traceability and transparency and that, might be driven a little bit more from the regulatory landscape and then consumer demand. So those tend to be, universal goals across all of the different sustainability teams. But the levers that you can pull will be quite different depending on which vertical you're talking about. Taking logistics service providers as an example. Because they're operating large fleets and have, significant more direct emissions, they're looking at strategies, definitely reducing excess miles, changing fuel to be decarbonising fuel, adoption of electric vehicles, modal shifts. So we see, especially around transportation management optimisation, our logistics service providers are trying to lean into those capabilities and they can also offer those benefits to their customers because they're serving all different kind of consumer good companies that have their own scope three reduction goals. So if logistics service providers are able to decarbonise the transportation they're providing for these other companies, that ends up being, you know, really a shared benefit. That's something we're seeing very clearly on the logistics companies. Manufacturers, and retailers are focused a lot on sourcing and their suppliers. So that goes back to what we were talking about, how they can really leverage the supplier decarbonisation practices, preferential suppliers that have better ESG scores and ESG performance because most retailers and manufacturers. The carbon emissions are really sitting in their purchased goods and services. And you know, maybe also in the actual facilities that they're operating. So they tend to be, pulling those levers more closely. And that gets to what we were talking about in just terms of how do you measure the carbon footprint associated with broccoli, a jar of peanut butter. We're developing at Blue Yonder these ways to, to translate inventory into carbon footprints, to empower customers, to have that measurement and ultimately optimise something that's been so hard to measure. Interesting. Okay. And as you mentioned earlier, somewhere between 60%, and I've heard figures up as high as 90% of emissions are linked to supply chains. What kind of internal conversations do you think chief sustainability officers and chief supply chain officers should be having that sometimes they're not? Hmm. Well, I think now the, big kind of organisational change that I'm seeing and then talking with our customers around is breaking down silos across those different teams. And we are seeing a shift in sustainability leaders and sustainability teams that they've always had influence at a, a very executive level because there's often corporate responsibility, board level responsibility for some of these goals. But now the alignment between sustainability teams and supply chain teams and these kind of shared goals, we're seeing more and more of that. And of course, having software and having that shared visibility, seeing the same data, seeing how your decisions at a supply chain level are affecting those sustainability goals, that becomes, you know, even more powerful for breaking across those silos. One example from a grocery customer that we're working with, they have a company carbon reduction goal, and then they have departmental level carbon reduction mandates essentially. And when I was speaking with their supply chain teams, they'd been given a mandate to reduce, I think it was like 60,000 tons of carbon, which was an incredibly abstract number to them. They had no idea how the transportation routing or deciding which manufacturers that they would work with, how that was ultimately influencing the mandate that they've been given. So having the tools to have shared data visibility, understanding how, if you're shipping things by air or ocean or train, how that influences the mandate that you've been given. We're seeing a huge appetite for that visibility, and ultimately control and decision making. There's gotta be a huge tension as well between shipping if you're going by, as you mentioned by ship or by plane because there's a huge difference there as well in terms of time of delivery because obviously plane, you're talking hours ship, you could potentially be talking weeks. Absolutely. And this idea of like expedited shipping by air is usually a result of like something going wrong upstream, right? So maybe you promise that you would have these sweaters on the shelf because it's, right ahead of the holiday shopping season and they're three weeks late from the factory. That's the kind of use case where you hear about these expedited shipments. This is where longer term planning and integrated decision making where you have data shared between the manufacturers and the retail location that gives you that advanced visibility so that you, you know, can plan ahead. You can change your plans. Maybe you can source from a different location or understand, you know, how those upstream decisions can reduce the need for expedited shipping. And this is an example where companies don't want to be doing air freight because it's so expensive, right? It's really driving the decarbonisation and shift to other more lower carbon intensive modes just from cost. So they're really looking for these tools to help them reduce air freight. Okay. You shared a second ago a customer story, but do you have other examples of where your customers made meaningful progress on sustainability goals? Yeah, there's a lot of great examples. I mean, one that's really easy to understand is just around the transportation optimisation and our, transportation management solution has been in place and, and continues to be improved over time. One example from Bayer Crop Sciences, they were able to reduce more than a million miles of transportation in their network just from deploying this in one region in South America. So just the visibility of understanding where your shipments are coming from, going to, being able to more closely reroute if there's disruptions and even switching from different modes that are lower carbon footprint, those are all capabilities within the solution. We have one customer a food importer from Thailand, CPF. They do a lot of meat imports into European countries, and through the demand and supply solution, they were able to reduce food waste by 15%, just through better optimisation of their processes and really understanding, how they could, match supply and demand more closely. And ultimately that's a fresh product that can definitely spoil. So that was a very powerful result. And what do you think are the characteristics of companies that are really leading in supply chain sustainability today? Is it mindset, tools, investment? All of the above. Something else entirely? I think one of, like the companies that are making the most progress, especially around supply chain footprint mitigation, are companies that have been at sustainability for more than the past two years, right? They've been trying to develop or developing sustainability programs for 10 or 15, sometimes longer. And they have sustainability woven into the operations of the company. They have things like corporate and leadership targets to reduce waste and reduce carbon that are tied to incentive plans. So you'll see the C-suite have mandates around reducing carbon and reducing waste, and that's tied to their bonuses and their, their, financial compensation. So that really speaks to the maturity of those companies and how they've developed plans and, those mechanisms that really reinforce ownership and accountability to making progress towards sustainability goals. You know, definitely see those as being leaders. The others that tend to resonate also with sustainability programs at the consumer level. They're just a, big focus in the fashion industry around more responsible fashion and better material choices, sourcing practices. So we do see also pockets of industries where there's just kind of consumer pressure that's forcing those types of companies to be more transparent around all of their practices and ultimately improve because they wanna meet that consumer demand. And we're in a moment where regulations around ESG and sustainability reporting are tightening. How are companies coping with the added data requirements and what traps are they sometimes falling into? Well, it's, it's interesting from a sustainability perspective, it's like sustainability teams wanted these regulations because they raised the water level and they provide more universal accountability in all the ways that we've been talking about. But the desire and, and now we have, these regulations in place. It's also changed how sustainability teams operate and the sustainability leaders have kind of become like carbon accountants where they have to have really detailed data and their collecting it from all of their internal and external stakeholders. They have to be meeting accredited standards for that reporting, and they also need to be delivering to the business actionable insights that help them make progress towards the strategies that they're setting. So it has transformed how sustainability teams are collecting data. And we hear all the time from customers that they're spending so much time on that whole kind of data management process and making sure that they have high standards for reporting and ultimately can, you know, make progress towards the sustainability goals that they've set. And this is where, we see a huge opportunity for this integrated approach between sustainability and supply chain. Blue yonder for example, because we have end-to-end supply chain management, we're already capturing all of this activity level data from warehouses, transportation, all the different equipment types from manufacturing locations. And we can more easily, directly translate that data into carbon metrics. We have a new solution. We just acquired a company called Pledge. They have a very mature logistics emissions calculator that does that. It really integrates logistics emissions at the equipment level, down to the fuel type, and provides GLEC accredited reporting. These are ways that we can help sustainability teams spend much less time collecting data and also validating the data, working with expensive consultants to make sure that they're reporting to high standards. So ultimately, you know, this is a perfect use case for software and, and especially that integrated solution that connects supply chain and sustainability. And looking ahead, three, five years, what do you think will separate the leaders from the laggards in sustainable supply chains? Yeah, great question. And if you look towards 2030 and we're already seeing a lot of you know, just scientific community, the international community is really recognised the impacts of climate change. And these we're, we're gonna continue to feel this on a, a personal level, obviously at a corporate level. So I anticipate that the, pressures from that realisation will start to, you know, really dial up for corporate action in, in a concerted way. We've seen this, and this is not necessarily a new trend, but I anticipate that it's gonna become even more acute. So the companies that are acting now are gonna be the ones that have the most robust plans in place. They're not responding, you know, in real time to those pressures. They've developed these mechanisms to better measure, optimise their plans, so they'll be in a good position to mitigate their own footprint. I mean, the time to act was probably 20 years ago, but the, the next best time to act is, is really right now. And what does success look like for you in your role? When do you get to say, Yesss, this is working? Well, we're actually at a point where I'm feeling a little bit of that momentum. So we, we announced our strategy of integrating sustainability into supply chain management about 18 months ago, and then have been working across all the different solutions to take all of that activity data and turn it into actionable sustainability metrics, and then ultimately sustainability plans. And we're working with our customers to deploy these new solutions. I think for me, success means customers are using these solutions and they're able to mitigate carbon emissions at scale. This is why I was excited to come to Blue Yonder, is tapping into this force of our 3000 customers, which are operating global supply chains with these vast footprints. If I can help, some of these customers just 5% or even less, the magnitude of that benefit is enormous. So that's what I'm really excited about. Nice. And what metrics or KPIs should companies focus on to measure the success of their initiatives and ensure continuous improvement? Hmm. Well, I mean, carbon carbon measurement is a, is a big one, of course. Waste reduction. But the one that I feel empathy for because I was a sustainability leader, is how do we empower supply chain leaders to spend less time on the, the projects like data collection that are not necessarily providing as much value, freeing them up to spend more time on developing strategy, working with their cross-functional teams to implement programs to help them improve their footprint. So that's something that we are also tracking with customers is time saved and ultimately the value that the sustainability team can bring to the, to the company will be much stronger from that. Okay, great. Left field question for you now, Saskia, if you could have any person or character, alive or dead, real or fictional as a champion for sustainable supply chains, who would it be and why? Okay, well the first person that comes to mind is David Attenborough because he's such a passionate he's already a passionate person in sustainability and has been really focused as we know on nature. But you know, I don't know how much he's touched supply chain specifically. He's definitely given us a new window and appreciation for ecosystems. I often think about supply chains and ecosystems being kind of metaphors. You know, ecosystem is a metaphor for or analogy for supply chain because of the connectivity that you see in nature. There's no independent material or independent, system or process flow in nature. Everything's very connected. Same thing with supply chain. So I think he would be a, a fantastic advocate and would help get the word out in a very visual and passionate way. Superb. We're coming towards the end of the podcast now Saskia, is there any question that I didn't ask that you wish I did, or any aspect of this we haven't touched on that you think it's important for people to be aware of? Yeah, I think we've, covered a lot and trying to think about things that we didn't include. I talked a lot about carbon mitigation, and this is something that we're working, you know, actively with customers to better measure and manage their carbon footprint. I just wanted to maybe underline the waste impacts a little bit more, just because the connectivity between the circular economy and supply chains, they're so strong. And within Blue Yonder we can help mitigate waste in the front end just from better planning solutions that are helping reduce excess inventory inventory waste and obsolescence, but then all the way through to returns. And this is something, you know, I also feel passionate about coming from the retail. Fashion retail is the waste that, the potential waste that can come from returns. If, if customers are buying 10 things and returning nine of them, often there's really a gap in between what's returned and how that can be turned back into inventory at the warehouse level, for example. So this is something we've been working on to support retail companies taking back returns. The complicated aspects of the reverse logistics, but then also how do you make sure, a product can come back kind of blind. It won't have maybe all the product information, it may not have packaging associated with it. How do you use tools like AI and information to be able to turn that back into inventory so that it doesn't end up in a landfill or being disposed of in, in a way like that? So, we are looking at all of these different kind of more circular economy and waste reduction type solutions. And I feel really passionate about that because I started my career at the EPA looking at waste reduction and it's something that kind of follows me through my career. Fantastic. Great. Okay, Saskia, if people would like to know more about yourself or any of the things we discussed on the podcast today, where would you have me direct them? Love for people to come to Blue Yonder's Sustainability page on our website, you can learn about the new solutions that we're producing, the Sustainable Supply Chain Manager. And then you can find me on LinkedIn at Saskia van Gendt. Fantastic. I'll put those in the show notes as well, Saskia, so everyone has access to them. Great. Okay, Saskia, thanks a million. That's been really interesting. Thanks for coming on the podcast today. Thanks, Tom. Great conversation. Okay. Thank you all for tuning into this episode of the Sustainable Supply Chain Podcast with me, Tom Raftery. Each week, thousands of supply chain professionals listen to this show. If you or your organization want to connect with this dedicated audience, consider becoming a sponsor. You can opt for exclusive episode branding where you choose the guests or a personalized 30 second ad roll. It's a unique opportunity to reach industry experts and influencers. For more details, hit me up on Twitter or LinkedIn, or drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook. com. Together, let's shape the future of sustainable supply chains. Thanks. Catch you all next time.